Classic Yada Post

5468. Childish by sallyrichmon, 8/4/03 16:41 ET
What's more childish? Someone who quits without notice or someone who confronts a co-worker professionally about the effects of them leaving the company without allowing at least a day notice?

5468.1. Which one are you? by xxxAnn, 8/4/03 16:49 ET Re: Childish by sallyrichmon, 8/4/03

5468.1.1. Untitled by sallyrichmon, 8/5/03 16:19 ET Re: Childish by sallyrichmon, 8/5/03

When you work for a company as a professional, you must keep in mind that although you might not agree 100% or even 1% with the policies or rules or not even like uppermanagement or anyone there, you are there to service others who are clients that include anyone from those who are needy or in much need of your help and expertise. Yes - you are there to help better the company and better the profit gained, but your service is valuable to those in need of it, and to just leave without notice can cause a tremendous amount of burden on not only the company, but your co-workers and those you are supposedly working to help out. So... you can understand why your co-workers would be frustrated. Also, how would they even know if you were leaving before you even left? Were you packing up all ready... on the phone talkign to someone about how you're just going to leave, not doing your work when you were suppose to even if it was your last week or day? What makes you think they told the boss? Obviously, if they notice you were waiting to quit, then obviously the boss and everyone in the office did to? Am I right? Come on... who's childish now... I think it's right that she confronted you... because you quitting without notice DIRECTLY affects her obviously.

5468.1.1.1. Wrong again... by booboobunny, 8/5/03 16:46 ET Re: Childish by sallyrichmon, 8/5/03

At the company I just left, it states right there in BLACK AND WHITE that employment is AT WILL. Either party can terminate the employee/employer relationship at ANY time.
You are correct in saying that leaving without notice CAN cause a tremendous amount of burden on the company and fellow coworkers. I understand why my ex-coworkers are frustrated. Been there. Done that. It ain't fun. But you know what? That's business and that's life. But I didn't leave my old company hanging in the wind as you are trying to lead everyone to believe. I worked hard on all of my projects right up until my last day. My projects were well documented and managers were kept abreast of my progress and any design issues.
I find it ironic to ask "how would they even know if you were leaving before you even left?" The knew the winds were blowing around at work about me leaving well before I started packing up my things or making any phone calls.

After some thought, I concede the possibility that this coworker did not inform my boss of my intensions to leave. But because of information I do not wish to disclose, I don't believe this to be true.

Whether or not this coworker was a tattletale or not isn't the point. This person sent a threatening and harassing e-mail, threatening to "blow my cover" (it doesn't matter if anyone else knew at this point) which in my opinion is more unprofessional than what I did.
Have you read any of the reasons why I did not give notice? Given my experience with this company and others, would you take the risk of going a couple weeks without pay, without health insurance?

And why are you lieing about working in HR. There are three people in HR in my former company. I spoke with one the morning I resigned and the head of HR was on vacation. The remaining person is the 401k specialist. Hmmm. Sounds like something's rotten in Denmark to me.

5468.2. I can answer this... by booboobunny, 8/4/03 16:56 ET Re: Childish by sallyrichmon, 8/4/03

with some personal experience. I used to work at a company that required one week notice. I had found a new, better paying job, gave my one week notice, and they promptly showed me the door. Luckily, the new company let me start earlier than scheduled. Otherwise, I would have been without pay for that week. In my most recent change of jobs, I did not give notice as it was not required by my employer. I did not have the flexibility to start my current job earlier in case I was let go immediately after giving notice. I certainly could not go without pay for that period of time. Not to mention giving up my health care and having to pay for COBRA so my family would have insurance coverage.
I believe that sallyrichmon may know someone who left without notice which resulted in increased workload for her. Too bad she's naive enough to think that companies have their employee's well-being at heart.

Telling the boss about the private matters of a co-worker in attempts to get said person fired is not only childish but is harassing in nature and in my book warrants termination. Tell me who's childish?

5468.2.1. I don't get it by xxxAnn, 8/4/03 17:05 ET Re: Childish by sallyrichmon, 8/4/03

If the person left without notice, then how did sally confront them professionally as a co-worker? And why do people ask strangers on a forum for validation?

5468.2.2. Yep by NeoEos, 8/4/03 17:09 ET Re: Childish by sallyrichmon, 8/4/03

While I understand the person who would admonish an employee for leaving without notice feels like they are left holding the bag, why not focus on the conditions that led this person to leave so abruptly? Sounds like a management problem and none of the co-worker's beeswax. I'll never forget what a professor of mine said the first day in one of my business admin classes, "never love a company because it can never love you back."

5468.2.3. On the other hand by ldeal, 8/4/03 17:23 ET Re: Childish by sallyrichmon, 8/4/03

I have a very hard time replacing employees due to the lack of qualified applicants in CNY. I had a woman leave me high and dry for nearly a month due to her lack of notice. In my very small business the loss of a single skilled employee is EXTREMELY hard. If she had given 2 weeks notice I could have begun my search sooner thus preventing the massive work backup her unexpected departure caused. The contract I sign with my employees states they will recieve up to one month of employee benefits, as the benefits are paid in advance starting the 1st of the month. The contract also states unless there is a verifiable emergency you must give 2 weeks notice.

When this person left I cancelled her insurance and reimbursed her share (1/3 the cost)instead. Her final check was also held for 2 weeks. The time she would have had to give me notice.

5468.2.3.1. And that is called... by NeoEos, 8/5/03 0:15 ET Re: Childish by sallyrichmon, 8/5/03

...the price of doing business Ideal. I'm convinced that better management would alleviate many of these impromptu exits. Workers today are treating jobs as disposable because often times they are underpaid, treated poorly or over worked. Talk to your employees, ask them how's it going every once and a while. Do they have everything they need to do their job? Also let them know that you appreciate their efforts and you believe in their personal growth. If the time comes for them to take a better opportunity, let them know you'll support it and provide them with references if they give you a heads up.

5468.2.3.1.1. This happened several years ago by ldeal, 8/5/03 7:36 ET Re: Childish by sallyrichmon, 8/5/03

In a small business like ours we personally interact with the staff everyday. Aside from this incident I have never had another person leave without notice. Since 1986 I have only lost 5 employees 3 gave notice, 1 died and one walked off without notice. None left because they were upset with their employment conditions. Even the woman who left without notice did so to be closer to her ill mother in Virginia. I understand how valuable each person is to the success of our work.

5468.2.3.1.1.1. Got a job? by NeoEos, 8/5/03 9:39 ET Re: Childish by sallyrichmon, 8/5/03

It sounds like you're doing everything right and it doesn't seem this is a big problem for you. I don't know how you could have avoided the no notice leave, but your record is good considering what other small business owners are reporting.

5468.2.3.2. Ideal... by booboobunny, 8/5/03 8:04 ET Re: Childish by sallyrichmon, 8/5/03

I can definitely sympathize with someone in your position, especially given the size of your company and what your business is about. I find it commendable that you put in writing that you will guarantee employment and benefits during the time after the person gives notice. If my company had a similar policy, I certainly would give notice. But given my previous employer's policy of "either party can terminate their relationship at any time for any reason", it doesn't inspire confidence that they will reciprocate professional courtesy.

5468.2.3.2.1. I understand by ldeal, 8/5/03 10:16 ET Re: Childish by sallyrichmon, 8/5/03

I was wrongly fired for my religious beliefs. I was given 2 weeks notice that my employment was going to be terminated due to unsatisfactory job performance a month after recieving an award for excellent job performance and a cash award from the company to boot! I stayed on for the final 2 weeks recruiting several employees from that lab who still work for me. That was 17 years ago. LOL

5468.2.4. lol when i read by mrsgeno, 8/4/03 19:04 ET Re: Childish by sallyrichmon, 8/4/03

sallys post i was thinking hhhhmmm is this the person boo was talking about

5468.2.5. exaggerating..yes or no by sallyrichmon, 8/5/03 10:21 ET Re: Childish by sallyrichmon, 8/5/03

Boo Boo -
Are you a little bitter that someone intelligent figured out or at least somewhat got the hint that you were leaving and as your co-worker, professionally confronted you about it? Honestly, how do you know that they told on you? And if they knew you were leaving because you were either not doing your work, talking on the phone about re-locating, or packing during working hours, don't you think the boss would have known already? Let's be real.... Nobody is going to send you an e-mail and harrass you about anything...

5468.2.5.1. Professionally??? by booboobunny, 8/5/03 10:47 ET Re: Childish by sallyrichmon, 8/5/03

Said co-worker didn't have the professionalism to talk to me in person. Instead the person decided to hide behind e-mail. How do I know that they told on me? They said so right in the e-mail that they sent to me that they assumed that I did not plan on giving notice and therefore "took care of it for me". Was giving no notice unprofessional? Perhaps. I followed the rules as outlined in the employee manual. Given how I was treated by my former employer, do I care? Nope. Funny how none of these "problems" or "concerns" came up during my exit interview. I was told that I was an excellent employee who did high quality work.

5468.3. Neither by Leapfrog, 8/4/03 19:31 ET Re: Childish by sallyrichmon, 8/4/03

The problem is between the boss and the worker. The co-workers should say out of it.

5468.3.1. Agree with You by sallyrichmon, 8/5/03 16:40 ET Re: Childish by sallyrichmon, 8/5/03

Yes... I agree that the person leaving is between the employee and the employer...but don't call it harrassment just because someone finds out your leaving or that you're disruptively packing your things during working hours and not doing your work for the next week or so before you leave.

Yeah... it's immature to say you'll tell on them... but the point is, get over it as being harrassment, especially when you've left already.

5468.3.1.1. Thin ice... by booboobunny, 8/5/03 16:48 ET Re: Childish by sallyrichmon, 8/5/03

Would you tell the woman who overhears a sexually explicit joke, "Oh just get over it?" Being someone in the HR department (as you claim to be), I know that you are very familiar with the harassment policy of your company.

5468.4. I don't think childish by PaganWild, 8/4/03 20:00 ET Re: Childish by sallyrichmon, 8/4/03

would be a proper description of either behavior. I don't think it is the co-workers business whether or not others give notice. I'm doubt the worker that is quitting cares what others think of their not giving notice. I don't think it is a proper thing for an employee to not give notice, but I am sure there can be extenuating circumstances in some cases. I think we all have to do what is best for ourselves in the long run. As someone else said, the company isn't going to love you. We are all replaceable if we die tomorrow.

5468.5. Maybe... by LadySTL, 8/4/03 20:14 ET Re: Childish by sallyrichmon, 8/4/03

...they left under a good reason, one the co-worker doesn't know about. There are acceptable reasons to leave without notice, you know. Sexual advances, discrimination, personal reasons, all of which are none of the co-worker's business.

5468.6. Hello Sally, tell us by Thelxepeia, 8/4/03 21:11 ET Re: Childish by sallyrichmon, 8/4/03

more about yourself. Why are you asking this question?

5468.6.1. Untitled by sallyrichmon, 8/5/03 10:26 ET Re: Childish by sallyrichmon, 8/5/03

I work in HR... and honestly, I'm tired on people who leave without any notice, but then sit there all week long packing up their stuff, talking on the phone and not doing their work because in the mean time when it's so obvious that their quitting just by how loud they're talking on the phone with someone else during working hours about leaving, I can't hire or think about hiring someone else who can pick up where their left off... especially when the person leaving without notice only pretends to do a project that is due the day after they leave. It's completely unfair.

5468.6.1.1. Funny thing... by booboobunny, 8/5/03 10:37 ET Re: Childish by sallyrichmon, 8/5/03

There was no HR in the office I left. It was at the home office in a different city.

5468.6.1.2.1. Here's a question for Boo Boo by sallyrichmon, 8/5/03 16:45 ET Re: Childish by sallyrichmon, 8/5/03

Are you finding yourself moving from job to job because you feel like you're treated unfairly... yet you never seem to make any friends at any of your company? Wonder why you were just fired after giving notice? Hmmmmm... It seems like this is common for you from job to job...

5468.6.1.2.1.1. I have enjoyed... by booboobunny, 8/5/03 16:58 ET Re: Childish by sallyrichmon, 8/5/03

working for all of the companies I worked for. Yes, even the one I just left. If you ask my coworkers at my old companies, you'll find that I was well liked and am sorely missed. I had plenty of friends at those companies (with the exception of the last one). I still keep in contact with many of these people.

But you seem to be very naive about why people may leave a job. In this economy, even the best people get laid off. The big wigs realize that the company is not doing well, needs to make some cuts, so they cut the people that will save them the most money. How naive to think that if you work hard and do a good job that you're job is safe. Wake up and smell the coffee!
I thought I got along fairly well with many people at my old company. There were a select few that I did not get along with. I treated them professionally but chose not to socialize with them because of our different interests.

5468.6.1.2.1.2. The company that fired... by booboobunny, 8/5/03 17:03 ET Re: Childish by sallyrichmon, 8/5/03

me after I gave my notice, I worked for them for one week. The old company had been sold and the new company did not guarantee us a job with the new company. Wanting to cover my 4ss, I searched for a new job "just in case". Turned out I got a better job for the other company than the one that just bought the old company. The people that fired me never even met me. So stick that in your pipe and smoke it!

5468.6.1.3. Hmmm. by booboobunny, 8/5/03 11:01 ET Re: Childish by sallyrichmon, 8/5/03

What does a person in HR now about project due dates? Your comment must not be about me because all of the projects I was working on had due dates that were at least a couple weeks out.
5468.6.1.3.1. HR knows practically everything by sallyrichmon, 8/5/03 16:32 ET Re: Childish by sallyrichmon, 8/5/03

First of all, HR in every company practically knows everything... by law, they're allow to check your work progress, phone messages, e-mails, and what you do online. Just to let you know of a few.

Secondly, people stay at my company for a very long time, and there's only a few that will leave without saying anything or not giving notice... but that's very few and those are the ones who go from job to job and then convince themselves that they left for the right reason or convince themselves that they weren't treated fairly.

Yeah.. situations are always different, but you, boo boo, seem to base everything on what happened at your previous company in DC. I'd like to see if you end up doing the same thing with this new company of yours.

5468.6.1.3.1.1. A poll... by booboobunny, 8/5/03 16:52 ET Re: Childish by sallyrichmon, 8/5/03
Said company has about 450 people. Every month, on average 6 to 7 people leave the company (resign, fired, laid off, retire). I don't know about you but this seems quite high in my opinion.
Take a look at how long people have been working at your office. The average person has only been there a couple years.

5468.6.1.3.1.2. I don't know about by jak69, 8/5/03 17:00 ET Re: Childish by sallyrichmon, 8/5/03

that. The people who work in my company are far too busy to worry about my deadlines. And if they tried to keep up with all of our employees they'd have to hire several more people to do it. And be careful how you say they are allowed to check email and phone records, its not something they can just go in and do for the fun of it, email has different regs than the phone but before you go nosing around you might want to check your local laws and make sure your butt is covered. And I'm with Boo, sometimes you just can't put in notice, I had the same thing happen to me and lost a week's pay. If I was in the same situation again, I wouldn't have given any notice at all.

5468.6.1.3.1.2.1. Maybe I'm wrong but... by booboobunny, 8/6/03 8:31 ET Re: Childish by sallyrichmon, 8/6/03

If there are 450 people in my company and 80 - 90 people leave every year, call me crazy but that doesn't sound like a good track record in my opinion. And this is for a professional company, not one that typically has high turnover like customer service.

5468.6.1.3.1.3. Unlike you... by booboobunny, 8/6/03 8:40 ET Re: Childish by sallyrichmon, 8/6/03

I've been around the block a few times. Most of my friends are in the same industry so I hear stories about other firms. It is not uncommon to hear about a company that "has never had to layoff people" and lo and behold, start laying off people. It's very common in this industry for people to jump ship to improve their lot, make more money, and advance their career. Gone are the days (unfortunately in my opinion) when people work for one company their entire life. I happened to be a victim of a bad economy and have been laid off twice. Both companies were companies that "never had to lay off people before". And it's not usually your boss who makes the decision who stays and who goes. It's all of the big wigs who don't know you from Adam, they look at the score sheet and axe the people that best improve their bottom line.
I hope to stay at my current company for a long time. I've only been here two weeks and I've already made tons of friends. I receive a lot of unsolicited offers for help moving in and adjusting to the new area I'm living in. I am very secure in my decision to leave my old job and that I did what was best for me and my family.

5468.7. Why should a person give notice? by localyocal, 8/4/03 22:25 ET Re: Childish by sallyrichmon, 8/4/03

If a company gets rid of you (fires lays off) they dont give you a week or 2 week notice why should we and an employee give that curtesy to them if a person could better themselves?

5468.7.1. I've never been by Thelxepeia, 8/4/03 22:44 ET Re: Childish by sallyrichmon, 8/4/03

fired for giving notice. I've always given two weeks or a month notice. I've never been fired for any other reason either.

5468.7.2. I put in my contract for my employees by ldeal, 8/5/03 7:42 ET Re: Childish by sallyrichmon, 8/5/03

Short of criminal behavior I will give them 2 weeks minimum notice if they are going to be laid off or fired. I have adjusted my accounts to maintain a 2 weeks salary buffer for every employee just in case. So far I have only fired one person and that was for consistantly being absent without calling in.

5468.7.2.1. Ideal You soubd like a role model employer by localyocal, 8/5/03 10:07 ET Re: Childish by sallyrichmon, 8/5/03

Whay do you do if I may ask, Most employers will hand you your pay check and say BTW your laid off or your fired, no notice I dont think that is fair if they expect the employee to give 2 weeks notice. (unless there are very good reasons to fire (drugs, alchohol sexual harrasment )etc.

5468.7.2.1.1. Confirmation studies by ldeal, 8/5/03 10:37 ET Re: Childish by sallyrichmon, 8/5/03

Independent bio medical research. Usually a company or researcher will do a study to get a drug approved or research verified and we dupliclate those studies independently to either confirm or dispute the findings. We handle the lab aspects not the human trials etc. Keeps the drug companies somewhat honest, well at least when they hire us it does. LOL

5468.7.2.1.1.1. Ideal... by booboobunny, 8/5/03 12:58 ET Re: Childish by sallyrichmon, 8/5/03

How did you go about getting all of the equipment that is required for the work that you do? Must have been a logistical and financial nightmare.

5468.7.2.1.1.1.1. Most of it was leased by ldeal, 8/5/03 13:12 ET Re: Childish by sallyrichmon, 8/5/03

The majority of the equipment was leased. A business loan and a partner with some capital as well. Now we own most of our stuff. Our first client was literally snatched from my prior employer and supplied alot of our start up cash as well.

5468.7.2.1.1.1.1.1. I can imagine... by booboobunny, 8/5/03 13:21 ET Re: Childish by sallyrichmon, 8/5/03

how expensive some of your equipment is - centrifuges, autoclaves, DI-RO water systems, lab fume hoods, etc

5468.7.2.1.1.1.1.1.1. Tell me about it ! by ldeal, 8/5/03 14:25 ET Re: Childish by sallyrichmon, 8/5/03

Luckily the base equipment, Autoclave incubators, cetrifuges, waterbaths, work fumehoods and refrigeration equipment is pretty sturdy and has a long lifespan. Glassware is another thing that seems to last a long time.

Reagants are our most expensive monthly consumable. We use loads of them at between $28 and $270 a liter.

Our mass spectrometer was nearly as expensive as a good used car! We charge the client for all disposable equipment, pipettes, dishes, plates etc. Our start up was about $230k in 1985. Loans covered 90K, the contract brought us over 200k but we only recieved 1/3 and the remainder at completion. There is a large demand for this service but not very many people who will do it. NY is especially lacking due to the cost of doing business. Most work is sent to N.Carolina, Texas and California.